What's with the Wagons?

"StiglyWigly" (stiglywigly) 10/04/2013 at 13:39 • Filed to: wagons

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I've been perusing through this blog for awhile now, and there has only been one thing I just don't understand; what's with the obsession of wagons. I'm a fan of hot hatches as much as the next guy, but I don't get why people like a good looking sedan (like the Cadillac CTS) with the back chopped off so it looks like a flattened SRX. It just looks bad. Along the same lines why would want a diesel wagon? From my experience driving a Passat TDI, diesels have no power/torque except for the split second they are at 1500 RPM, why should I want that? Before I get a head full of steam, I'm guess I'm asking could someone explain to me why wagons?

For Sweden > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:42

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Wagons have all the practicality of a crossover/SUV with all the on-road driving dynamics of a car. Also, if you can't find the torque band on a turbo diesel engine, you're driving wrong.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:42

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GET

OUT

CalzoneGolem > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:43

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Personally I find wagons more attractive then sedans 90% of the time and can do more 100% of the time.

Hatches are like mini wagons so you get it.

I can't explain the diesel thing ... they just smell funny and sound like a tractor.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:43

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Like hatches but not wagons? Much of confused I am. The same design principles of completeness and wholeness apply to both.

area man > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:44

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You're on the wrong side of town, friendo.

PRBot II > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:44

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This is how every wagon looks to me.

SpeedSix > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:44

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Because Volvo 850R

duurtlang > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:45

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Why wagons? Because best of both worlds.

Drives like a sedan, practicality of a CUV. You can take your dogs. It doesn't have the downsides of the sedan (practicality) or CUV (handling, economy, performance, looks)

PatBateman > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:45

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I actually feel a severe disdain towards wagons, personally. The CTS-V wagon is nice, and I guess if I HAD to own one, it would be that one. But otherwise, nope.

area man > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:45

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But seriously, what For Sweden said is 100% it. Also, they are now much harder to find, and we all know scarcity breeds desire.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:45

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Many people here have a brutal hatred of SUV's and CUV's so the wagon is a way to get space with needing to own one. Its also a forbidden fruit thing, we want it cause we can't have it. The forbidden fruit thing goes the same for diesels, I think. I never really got that one.

StiglyWigly > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/04/2013 at 13:45

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To me it's more about forcing a wagon out of something else just for the sake of a wagon like the Shooting Brake

Gamecat235 > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:46

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Imagine, if you will, a world where function was priority number one, and all form followed function. A wagon makes optimal use of otherwise unused space in a package that varies minimally from a standard sedan.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > CalzoneGolem 10/04/2013 at 13:46

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^This^

Saracen > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:47

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"I don't get why people like a good looking sedan (like the Cadillac CTS) with the back chopped off so it looks like a flattened SRX."

The back isn't chopped off. A CTS wagon is the same length as a CTS sedan. The roofline is extended to the rear bumper.

"It just looks bad."

Well, that's your opinion. News flash: Everyone has different opinions...deal with it It just so happens that many of us here love how wagons look. IMO they look better in most cases than their sedan counterparts.

"Along the same lines why would want a diesel wagon?"

Torque, mileage, and practicality...when combined with a fun-to-drive chassis it's a great all-round vehicle.

"From my experience driving a Passat TDI, diesels have no power/torque except for the split second they are at 1500 RPM"

From my experience they make torque all the way to the (albeit low) redline.

"Before I get a head full of steam, I'm guess I'm asking could someone explain to me why wagons?"

Because some of us want practicality but don't want to drive three feet off the ground in a truck that is lucky to get 20mpg and doesn't have any steering feel. And we like how they look. To me there's no better all around car than a sports sedan that can carry as much stuff as a small SUV when I need it.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:47

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It looks good. There doesn't have to be a reason.

Firewrx234 > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:49

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Ilike_cougars > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:49

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When I want to have fun, I take the sports car,

When I want to have fun with the girlfriend & dog on a roadtrip, take the wagon.

comprende?

StiglyWigly > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/04/2013 at 13:51

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No to someone with eyes

pianomanzero > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:52

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Though I don't have one at the moment, I like wagons because I'm a bassist and I gig roughly five times a month plus five to ten additional rehearsals per month and hauling my shit around (especially those times when I need to haul around my upright bass) is WORLDS easier in a wagon.

That's primarily why I'd be attracted to something like the CTS-V wagon or an S6 estate if I had the cash to drop on it; sporty and I can put all my shit in it? Yes please.

If you like diesels and you have a lot of shit to haul, diesel wagons are attractive. If you don't like diesels, don't get a diesel wagon.

People like different things. It's what makes the world cool to live in, and it's not always meant to be understood 100% of the time.

CalzoneGolem > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:54

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Because if we don't agree with your sense of aesthetics then we are blind and wrong? Fuck you guy.

Slave2anMG > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 10/04/2013 at 13:55

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^THAT^...well except for the diesel part. Me gusta diesel.

Sn210 > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:57

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I recently read a comment or post that explained it all. I'm not sure if it was here on Oppo or the front page, but it was within the last week. I wish I saved it...
Anyway, it comes down to the hoonage to practicality ratios. Wagons have lots of cargo space for your kids, your dogs, and your kids' and dogs' stuff. A wagon like the Cadillac gives you the hoonability of a 556hp RWD monster. I'd love a CTS-v coupe or sedan, but where's my stuff/(future) kid/dog going to go? My affinity for wagons started before joining Oppo; I think we just have a high concentration of wagon lovers here.

area man > PRBot II 10/04/2013 at 13:58

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And that's a problem?

Tom McParland > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 13:58

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As one of the resident wagon obsessed Opponauts: A few things- 1 Styling is a subjective thing so there really is no point in arguing there. 2- As others have mentioned it is the combo of performance and practicality that appeal to most of us. 3. For me there is a "sleeper" factor that few folks expect a wagon to be fast 4. Part of it is the "forbidden fruit" factor, of we can't have them (most of the really cool ones) so we want them. If you are not into wagons, that is cool. I am not into convertibles but I understand why Miata is always the answer...it's just a thing. Wagons are part of Oppo's thing...sure not everyone is super excited about them, but that is ok. I'll just leave you with this-

anonsagainstanonymous > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 14:03

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I don't get sedans. Why would you have that weird archaic "boot" on the back of a car when you can get an estate? They do everything better and with little to no sacrifice. With a sedan, even getting some furniture from IKEA is a hassle. I only have one driveable car at the time and not really any room for a trailer.

Especially daily drivers or basically anything with more than 3 doors.

CobraJoe > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 14:04

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It's the hot hatch mentality scaled up, effectively.

You get about 90% the same hauling capacity of a similar sized SUV, but with none of the drawbacks (gas mileage, weight, acceleration, handling, etc). For example, we had a B6 Passat when we had a kid, but we could only fit the stroller and a duffel bag in the back. We traded it for a Volvo V50, and we were able to carry 3 people, the baby, the stroller, luggage, and a medium sized Ikea shopping trip all without using the roof rack, and then got 31mpg all the way home.

Plus, the wagon versions were sometimes available with larger or more powerful engines to handle the extra carrying capacity, especially back in the muscle car days.

And also, I like the way they look. It's rare that I like the looks of the sedan over the wagon.

Volvosaurus-Rex > PRBot II 10/04/2013 at 14:10

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You must not have opened your eyes since 1980.

bkempert > CalzoneGolem 10/04/2013 at 14:13

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Why diesel? Because torques.

Volvosaurus-Rex > Saracen 10/04/2013 at 14:13

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It is interesting to me how many people these days want to "sit up higher". I wonder if that is a thing in Europe where there aren't as many SUVs or trucks.

deadpedal > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 14:16

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Effectively Trolling Oppo 101. Professor Stiglywigly

duurtlang > anonsagainstanonymous 10/04/2013 at 14:16

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Exactly. I briefly owned a Subaru Legacy wagon. When I needed to haul an old dishwasher I just put it in the back. With the back seats up. Had I had a Legacy sedan I would've needed to rent/borrow a trailer. Sedans make no sense to me, at all.

efme > Saracen 10/04/2013 at 14:23

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agreed with all of this except the 20mpg. I can't get 20mpg btw.

duurtlang > Volvosaurus-Rex 10/04/2013 at 14:24

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People want to sit higher in Europe as well. But, in my experience, those people are mostly old enough to be my (1983) parents or grandparents. The $8.50 a gallon (US) gas isn't very friendly to 'high' vehicles either. Another reason we don't have as many SUVs and trucks is because we don't have SUV/truck promoting CAFE regulations.

PS9 > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 14:24

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You may as well go to Jezebel and ask,'What's with Ryan Gosling?' or LS1tech.com and ask, "Can you all please STFU about the new LT1?'

efme > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 14:26

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simpley put. practicality and 'sedan" road dynamics.

SUV = high clearance and space for your wilderness adventures. pointless on the road.

Wagon = road dynamics and space for your suburban adventures. pointless off road.

where are most of us 99% of the time while in a car?

PRBot II > area man 10/04/2013 at 14:27

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

PS9 > Saracen 10/04/2013 at 14:27

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Correct. A wagon can give you a track star, a drag car, a grocery getter, and people hauler all in one vehicle. Unlike with an SUV with poor handling, a sports car with no interior space, or a crossover with (TYPICALLY!) no guts under-the-hood, you sacrifice nothing. With a wagon, you really can have it all.

Volvosaurus-Rex > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 14:27

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What the rest of the American Car-Verse thinks when they hear "Wagon":

What Jalops think:

PRBot II > Volvosaurus-Rex 10/04/2013 at 14:28

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Some things cannot be unseen.

Volvosaurus-Rex > PRBot II 10/04/2013 at 14:29

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Here you go big guy...

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 14:37

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For me, I feel that I like wagons mainly because they're more useful. Like imagine all the most awesome sedans in the world, E63, Panamera, RS6, even normal cars like the Accord and the Mazda 6. Extend the rear end to become a wagon and for some reason it's just. BETTER.

Saracen > Sn210 10/04/2013 at 14:43

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I don't have kids or dogs, and I still love the wagon form factor. I ski. I camp. I have a mountain bike and a road bike. I like to go on road trips. I like being able to load small piece of furniture from Ikea and home improvement materials from Home Depot. I like being able to load a plasma TV upright. You don't always need the space, but damn, you're glad you have it, and there is no penalty for having it around.

True story: My brother, who owns a Subaru WRX sedan, called me from Ikea...he bought new blinds but couldn't take them home because his sedan did not have a trunk passthrough, and needed me to bring my wagon over.

Wagons ain't just for those with families.

PRBot II > Volvosaurus-Rex 10/04/2013 at 14:52

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It's all I can see :(

Sn210 > Saracen 10/04/2013 at 15:00

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Excellent point! Sometimes you need the space for stuff. I didn't mean to sound like I was declaring wagons as the official vehicle for kids/dogs, just the first example I thought of. You're definitely right though. I don't have kids at the moment, but I can't stand not fitting stiff in my car.

StiglyWigly > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 15:14

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Sorry, I went about this wrong. I didn't mean any offense to wagon lovers. I was truly curious about why people like wagons so much (and I knew I would get great answers), and I should have just posted the question and ended there instead of trying to bring my own opinions into the matter. I got ahead of myself and I'm sorry to anyone I offended

Volvosaurus-Rex > duurtlang 10/04/2013 at 15:49

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My roommate (born in 85) is petrified of driving on the freeway and wants to sit higher above all else. I think it permeates American car culture today. This is why you see the prevalence of the downsizing of the CUV. BMW X1, Audi Q1, Mercedes GLA (or whatever) and the smallest of the tall: Buick Encore (Opel Mokka to you). My roommates number one prospect for a car right now? Nissan Juke. Too bad her price range is more Chevy Spark.

a164353 > CalzoneGolem 10/04/2013 at 15:55

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The reasons you give for disliking diesels are reasons why I like diesels.

facingtraffic > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 16:04

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Meet my Impreza wagon.

She's 5spd and relatively light on her feet, so she's fun to drive.

She's not afraid to get dirty. She really shines when I have to haul things. I almost attempted to fit all this crap into my wife's Fiesta for a 180 mile drive. Glad I didn't.

More recently, the wife and I moved and decided we needed a new bed frame. That's a queen-size. in there. Granted, the longest piece actually protruded between the front seats, but it fit inside. Which was great, because it started raining after we got there.

She hauls all my crap without complaint and provides plenty of driving enjoyment when unencumbered.

That's why wagons.

PS9 > PRBot II 10/04/2013 at 17:05

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Expanded cargo/people space + Sports car performance.

I fail to see how this is bad...

PRBot II > PS9 10/04/2013 at 17:07

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It's not bad at all. I agree that it's very practical.

And awkward-looking.

Tom McParland > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 19:36

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We all make mistakes...myself included. There was one time I said on the FP that the best "American Design" was a Ford GT 40....boy did I get slammed for that one. At least, Oppo is a very forgiving site. :)

Grindintosecond > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 19:39

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For purely scientific like, a wagon design actually generates downforce compared to a sedan. Naturally. Airflow goes over the car but the air over the glass actually comes down and lands on the aft portion of the roof first before spilling over the back hatch. This is why the TWR 850 volvo BTCC car was raced....they realized they would get a natural advantage over the rest with downforce the sedans didn't have.

twinturbobmw > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 19:45

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Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 20:04

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Dont worry, I doubt you really offended anyone. And to be honest its more than a fair question.

Atomic Buffalo > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 20:35

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"What's with the obsession of wagons... It just looks bad... could someone explain to me why wagons?"

No, because you are quite clearly not open to explanation. You pass off your opinion of one particular wagon's aesthetics as some kind of general wagon fact, and pass off your brief impression of a TDI in one car as a universal diesel characteristic.

What you want is for a bunch of people to fail to sway you, thereby validating your predisposition against wagons, and perhaps making some of this wagon noise go away.

I urge you to reconsider the truth or depth of your hot hatch fandom. Ask yourself why you like them, and you might on your own come to appreciate why other people are enamored of wagons. But you'll have to come to this enlightenment on your own, because you're not ready to hear it from other people.

Otto > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 20:56

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You done messed up, now.

94GTratracer > StiglyWigly 10/04/2013 at 21:02

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Because wagons typically get stiffer rear springs because they expect you to put more stuff in it—so they handle more on the neutral to loose side when unloaded. And then you can put all that extra stuff in it when you aren't hooning the crap out of it. Basically you get so much more space for only marginally more weight, why not wagon?